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Here is the latest build of what I've been doing with the combat system.

It has Meridiana against a group of about 32 goblins in an open area.


If you look in the spell book option under the menu, it will tell you how to cast each spell.  For this build:

1 = North

2 = South

3 = East

4 = West


I really like the spell book and the way casting works, everything else I'm not quite sure on yet. 

I don't know if its the system, or the spells.  Perhaps I should focus on more spells that have an area of effect, or a long effect and less spells that feel like shooting. 


Anyways, here is the build:

https://mega.nz/#!aYYD0ZRA!HalQgdeo6X7mLxCW1nSt1q_3AnoTfsDoRG2Ui3UrRt8

Please give me your honest thoughts, I want to make this an interesting and fun game even without the lewd bits!

Comments

Stuntman Shocking Lopez

The combat mechanics is too overworked, i mean pressing fourth keys to make just one attack?.

Mithos56

I think its kinda a novel idea, and I like it, but I can see where you're coming from. I'm seriously considering stripping it down and taking a Force Unleashed approach, or something more liek taht.

Anonymous

This one is a big one because I feel like a lot of important stuff has been changed. I hope this doesn't come across as spergy and self-indulgent, but as useful constructive criticism. I like the basic idea of the new system. I think it is substantially more interesting than a vanilla third-person-shooter. I agree that you should move away from "shooting" spells. Basic shooting doesn're really work in the new system unless the shooting spells were used as very high damage single target attacks that could basically guarantee a kill, otherwise it takes too much effort for too little payout. However, I think in it's current state, using cardinal directions to label the spells is a bad idea. Maybe if you envision this game being played primarily on gamepad that would make sense, but considering this will likely never leave the PC, it should be assumed many people will use mouse & keyboard (even if a lot of people use gamepads for PC gaming nowadays). If you want to keep mouse and keyboard, maybe consider LMB as west, RMB as east, mousewheel scroll up as north, and mousewheel scroll down as south? That would mesh with the naming convention in a way that isn't as awkward as the numerical values oriented horizontally being mapped to four cardinal directions (3 is "west" of 4, but 3 is mapped to east?) Maybe I'm nitpicking a little too early in development, but this naming convention currently seems way more confusing than it needs to be. I don't think most people would be upset by just calling them spell slot 1, 2, 3, and 4 if it meant they could easily understand what the game wanted instead of having to translate it from spellbook to actual game inputs. If the end result is someone remembering "1341" why force them to learn "north, east, weast, north" first? I similarly couldn't figure out any logic to the spell directions, so it's not like the naming convention really helped me. Also, if you want the combo-spell system to remain, I feel like having the spells be 4 buttons long is too many. It never felt intuitive and often felt like I should be getting something out of 2 or 3 presses (with 4 different inputs, a combo that's 2 inputs long still allows for 16 possible spells, a combo of 3 would allow 64; you don't need capacity for 256 spells!) In its current build it feels pretty crummy, frankly. It takes too long to get a spell off, the spells aren't powerful, there are too many enemies (and it's too easy to get stun-locked by them). It feels like the only real option is to kite the enemies, try to get the time-slow spell to go, then just do the AOE blast attack over and over. You could do that with two buttons: one mapped to each useful skill. That's not really justifying our difficulty in execution or your time and energy developing the complex system. That would seem to suggest that this system is not the best solution in its current state. While I like the idea of on-the-fly "spell creation," with the current spells and current cumbersome nature of the system, I don't actually like its implementation. Sorry, but I feel like it needs a ton of refinement if it's going to work. It might also just be beyond the scope of single-person game development in 2016. :( I'm still very much in support of your project, but this new system is perhaps the first step in the wrong direction. It may not be the kind of resounding success you want, but knowing what does NOT work is, in the long run, just as useful as knowing what DOES work. I don't think this system currently works. I hope I haven't been too harsh. Please continue to explore and develop, I would still very much love to see what you do :D

Anonymous

I'm going to echo what the two other commenters have said so far in that the cardinal directions idea is too clunky and not very intuitive. As far as simple ergonomics are concerned, using 1 2 3 and 4 while also having your movement keys as W A S D means that you either have to come to a grinding halt to cast a spell, or you have to lose the ability to target if you take your hand off your mouse to use the number pad. Not an issue if you're using a gamepad, but as Tinybone mentioned, I wouldn't base your control scheme for a PC only game to cater more toward a controller than a keyboard. I don't want to provide a bunch of negative feedback with zero solutions though. Given that you want to include a number of spells for Meri to use, have you considered using a system along the lines of Bioshock's plasmids? What I mean is that you would have one spell assigned at a time, with one key assigned to quick change to another if needed depending on the situation the player gets themselves into. You could then open up a spell wheel to select a different spell to quick change to as well. You could even continue to use your time slow mechanic while the player selects a spell from the wheel rather than stop time completely, so that there is still a sense of urgency to pick a spell and fight the enemy. A system like this may also be more in sync with the stealth aspects you've said you want to keep in the final game. I know my response basically boils down to "I didn't like it, try something completely different", but I wanted to be honest with you since your work has been so good so far. The complete loss of mobility is probably the biggest sticking point for me in this build, but, and this is my personal opinion, I'm not a fan of fighting game style combos to cast a spell in general. I know the spell wheel idea has been done before, but I think it would be a good intuitive system for users to enjoy. I hope my comments have been helpful. Keep up the great work, and I can't wait to see what you have in store for us next!

Mithos56

No, Tinybone, this feedback is perfect! How the key pressed are mapped or what they are called I'm not too concerned with yet, that stuff can and will be changed. The length of the spell inputs can also easily be changed, I try not to hard code anything. I worry more that if pressing 4 buttons sequentially isn't super exciting, pressing three isn't going to be much better. If I'm going to use just two inputs, I think there's probably a better system to be done. I used a lot of enemies in the test to kinda see how fun it could be to push enemies around, and have things flying left and right. Obviously that isn't quite how its coming off, so all of this helps!

Mithos56

Like I said to Tinybone, honest feedback is the only way I can fix it so thank you for taking the time to give me your thoughts! My only problem with a spell wheel is that it tends to limit what people do. More often then not I've seen people stick to only a few abilities, and not you everything at their disposal because it was too much work. If I can make some sort of "quick wheel" then that might be a great option! The only thing I'm probably going to be a stickler on is the lack of mobility while casting spells(at least most of them). Maybe there will be a few weaker spells that you can use on the move as limited crowd control, but I really feel like a sorcerer or wizard is going to be rooted in place while they cast that super powerful spell. You have given me some stuff to think about and the wheels are already turning!

Anonymous

Just my take on the whole NSEW system, I agree it's too complicated, however I believe the fix isn't too difficult, perhaps make it so when we learn a spell the dialogue mentions NSEW, but then in the spell book it lists it as 1234 instead. In that regard we aren't explicitly told N is 1 and 3 is E, but we can learn that info for ourselves, and could give someone a "Oh, that's cool" moment. " It might also just be beyond the scope of single-person game development in 2016" I disagree with Tinybone here, it just needs a few tiny tweaks. I feel like having 3 button inputs instead of 4, whilst the change might be small, could potentially be a pretty big deal, and as Eric said, the need to sacrifice mobility to input 1234 is a very large and unnecessary problem. One possible suggestion is to hold something like shift to lock your movement's momentum and then use WASD for NSEW, which would remove the need to rename NSEW to 1234 as well. Also, when aiming via RMB pressing E without moving just teleports you to where you already are. Perhaps make it teleport you forward just like normal. Also, I agree with Eric when it comes to "quick casts", maybe have it so one spell can be saved to LMB whilst aiming with RMB.

Anonymous

Now, some problems I encountered, as this system is quite buggy, as well as observations: The summoned wall is pretty useless, and would probably only have an application in a maze-like map or corridor ridden area. The gravity well spell (1324) has no texture and cannot be aimed up or down. The effect of 2222 seems useless/underwhelming. During sex animations, you can press 1234 and see her hand and arm move. Glitch or planned future mechanic? Homing Light (4444) and Time Stop (3333) are swapped, so to activate the time stop you press 4444 instead of 3333 and visa versa. Not so much a problem with the new combat, but I somehow got the back cloth to clip through the stomach. I'm not sure how it happened. If you're having some sexy time with the trap an enemy can hit you out of it, but the tentacles will remain. It functions like normal and kills any enemies that step into it. The push spell (1431) isn't 1431, not sure what it's code really is, which is sad because 4214 and 3213 seem quite effective/fun (only got to use on objects, not enemies), although they could do with some textures too. When I teleported and pressed 4444 my camera glitched, and could only turn 180 degrees. Button spamming somehow fixed it.

Mikado

This is just a small feedback, but I think your current system for spell casting is too complex and not really ergonomic. However, the idea is interesting, but I believe you need something a bit more intuitive for the player that doesn't require to always take a look at the spellbook (which literally cut the pace of the game when you're in combat). I think it could be a good idea to have two distinc type of spell casting: - A simple spell casting that would be only reserved for basic attack/defense spells. It would just require to select the spell and press a key to use it. It could be selected from a wheel interface where you can choose the spells you want to use. You could also use 1, 2, 3, 4 keys as shortcut for that part. -A more complex spell casting (inspired by your current system) reserved for complex and powerful spells (traps, large area attacks, ect...) that would need to be prepared in order to be casted. I was thinking about a system that will slow time (like it already does) and show something like a spell diagram where you'll perform the incantation with your mouse/joystick in order to pre-cast the spell. When done correctly, your spell will be "charged" (for a limited time) and you'll be able to cast it by pressing the same key used for basic spell. Plus, having a visual representation of what you're doing should help the player to learn the different spells. So to summarize, I think the good balance for your system would be to have a basic spell key and complex spell key that will slow time and open an interface to perform the spell casting. I hope it's understandable. I'll try post one or two images to explain better my idea if my explanation really sucks. :P EDIT: Here's some images to better illustrate my ideas: <a href="http://imgur.com/a/eo40t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/a/eo40t</a>

Anonymous

To put simply, this is like Invoker from DotA. The mechanic is very simple and already well established. Here's a video for some inspiration. <a href="https://youtu.be/oCcsA4P3dUM?t=2m24s" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/oCcsA4P3dUM?t=2m24s</a> Only difference is that Invoker (the hero) has three "orbs" that he can combine to make spells (Fourth button which "combines" the orbs). Each orb is unique AND the theme goes along with the spells it creates so players remember them easily. Also, the spells are very different from each other so they don't seem repetitive. Maybe you can get some spell ideas from the video as well. There are only ten spells from 3 combination ingredients which, I agree, has a bit of a learning curve, but provides great potential for the game. But you will use the spells often and learn the combinations in no time. I think having the ingredients stand out from each other (like in the DotA, distinct colored orbs float around the hero) so that it's easier to memorize and combine spells. Maybe in this game you could have things like Disarm, Necromancy, Deaggro, Invisibility, etc.

Mikado

Personnaly, I've never played to DotA, but from your explanation, I believe it's not too far from my ideas I posted before. Here's some images to better illustrate my previous post: <a href="http://imgur.com/a/eo40t" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://imgur.com/a/eo40t</a>

Anonymous

I like the UI, but I think he should just make it 3, not four. Three already gives 10 spell combinations. Maybe make the three elementals like Ice Wind Fire. i.e Ice abilities slow/stun. Wind: speed/tornado/evasion. Fire: damage. Maybe the 10th spell which combines all three stop time, since that's the most powerful spell.

Anonymous

hi! it certainly is all good! but think of the spell for the sex, seduction, and when there will be new characters? and I understand this is the only build for this month???

Mithos56

I appreciate your patience, before I bring in more new characters, there are a couple of basic things like combat and movement that I want to nail down.

Mithos56

This is a neat idea and I think there's some stuff I can certainly learn from this. One thing I do want to avoid is the more generic elemental magic. I Appreciete you posting this for me

Mithos56

Yeah, that seems to be the consensus. I'm making some changes as well speak, see if that helps at all.

VaSh

really really difficult! the only way i could not end up stunlocked and pummeled was to spam randomness, even after looking at the spellbook. somehow a large cube appeared out of the ground underneath a bunch of grouped up enemies and then i proceeded to spam the "chain lightning" style white light spell on the mountain of green (result: <a href="https://postimg.org/image/imhn2r3yp/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://postimg.org/image/imhn2r3yp/</a> ) might be nice to have the key next to the direction in the spellbook e.g. "1:north 2:south 1:north 2:south" or "north south north south (1212)"

VaSh

i really enjoyed the old system with only 4 spells, but i think you can combine the two systems by keeping track of which spells you use and combining the last few of these minor spells to charge up a combination spell. for example if we colour code them and i do 3 blue i should get a powerful blue spell ready to use when i want or 2 blue and 1 red for a different one. when i use it, the combination should be cleared so it has to be done again. this makes it easy for beginners to pick up and makes learning the combinations more fun as they're powerful but optional until you get to boss fights etc.

Anonymous

I really like where you are going with this new magic system!.... But I feel it needs some work... I agree with the other comments that the casting seems too complicated. Input commands seem too random at the moment to be cohesive under fire... Which makes sense to a degree that under stress casting spells would be difficult due to distractions... But in practice it's just frustrating. So with that said here are some ideas you may consider. First what I think it is a must with this new system to have some form of logic to inputs rather than some form of random sequences. Like have a reasoning to why you must string the inputs in a certain way. Fighting games which have complex move sets often have a logic behind all the inputs. Like certain buttons correlate to punching and kicking with certain limbs and the button sequences before that are usually consistent... Like pressing forward and kick and forward and punch the forward modifies the action so the fighter lunges forward more with that moves than just pressing punch and kick without pressing forward. I feel like some sort of system like that would help with the cohesiveness of stringing inputs... So like north always does something defensive and then mixing in a bit of west that is always aggressive makes for a fiery shield or something... While two northes raises a wall... But if you mix in a bit of south which is status ailments.... You see where I'm going with this? You could also go with having the first input be you're selecting the general type of spell then the next few inputs are modifiers that refine the spell. You could also go with not having to have you inputs be exact sequentially. So like the summoning trapp being north, north, South, South. You could have it so that she castes the same spell always as long as the player puts in some combination of 2 souths and 2 norths. I also think placing some icons to display the player's input would help a bunch. Also the autocasting once the input is complete was a bit cumbersome... I was finding myself spaming the buttons and not being able to aim very well. I'd suggest once the sequence is complete she doesn't fire it off instantly but rather she has it primed and ready and is ready to shoot. With this kinda system you could prepair a spell and be ready to fire it in an instant. You could also do something cool with her glowing or the UI lights up telling you she is armed. Also another Thought is that youy could have a spell discovery system with this and have scrolls that you could find that add new spells to you spell book. Like if Meridiana is a certain level and then puts in a certain sequnce she can perform a spell she's never done... But it's a trick to press the right sequence without a scroll... And all the scrolls do it tell you the inputs. I'm saying this as that kinda system was in a really cool game called Legend of Grimrock... You could have a wizard and to cast spells you had to click icons in a certain order and then hit cast... So you could cast any spell as long as you knew the proper sequence and you were of the proper level to cast it. They also has it so like there was fast spells that would only take 2 inputs and complex spells that too as much as 8 inputs but would be MUCH more effective. This game was in real time btw so spell casting was intense.

Mithos56

I'm currently trying something very similar to what Mikado suggested, and I think it might help a bit

Anonymous

.... Alright Partner I ain't go beat around the bush here of course what the others have said might be interesting as well. I still have a feeling that this is far more frustrating then fun, on top of that It feels as your going too much away from the H-Game content. Though it might be fun for a bit , long term reality is it is a slight diversion at best. Just my opinion, on but I feel we need to return focus to the H-Game and keep the combat system simplified. Cause as of right now the Game doesn't seem fun to me just too complex.

Mithos56

You'll be happy to know for now I've decided to go with a simpler version of the combat that involves a few hotkeys. I'm going to focus more energy on creating diverse spells, as opposed to a complicated spell system. While I'll be getting back to the adult stuff soon, I do want to say that its important to me the game still be fun without it. If its not, I consider it a failure as a game, and I'd save myself time just making videos and animation clips.