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Angel S05E18 - Origin FULL REACTION (Patreon)

Published:
2019-08-15 19:24:22
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OneHub link: https://ws.onehub.com/files/zwdycm16

Dropbox link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ww522m5f9sv8jr/Angel%20S05E18.mp4?dl=0

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Anonymous

I’m actually glad that Connor made an appearance. We got to see a side of him that was never shown before. All we saw was the depressed and angry side of him. It was definitely refreshing and wow, walking down memory lane definitely hit you, myself and I’m sure everyone else right in the feels.

Bixgirl1

Seeing Connor in this was (and god, you cannot imagine how much I hate making this comparison lol) so much, for me, like Cordy's appearance in You're Welcome. Like, righting a character injustice I guess? We were supposed to (I *think*) care so much for Connor, and feel so attached to him, even if just for Angel's sake. But mostly the fandom, like you, just ended up loathing him. Lolol. So I love this episode for the opportunity it gave us to really enjoy the idea of Angel having a son, not for any other reason than because we love Angel and could *like* Connor, genuinely. And NONSPOILERY answer to your ambiguous question: I think it's just a matter of perspective. I personally feel like the end of the ep implied pretty unequivocally that he knew, but I remember there being big arguments about it in the comms. 😂 So take your pick! Great reaction as always!!! Can't wait for the next!

Nick Velasquez

when spike says Illrya can "possibly talk to plants" I've always taken that to be a throwback to Season 3 ep 3. Cordy says "What's not to like? She's sweet and adorable and seems to be laughing at something that shrub just said"

Anonymous

I'm assuming you had to edit out the very end where Connor looks back at Angel before going into the elevator. If not, then there's a tiny bit more to watch. Anyway, no, it's not meant to be ambiguous. Connor gives it away when he says the line "I learned that from my father."

Inseriousity

I'm not a fan of mopey whiny Connor but I am also of the opinion that his memories returned (that look he does straight afterwards back to psycho killer from fresh-faced innocent as well as his fighting skill). If they did then that means that Connor chose to return back to his happy, healthy life with no moaning or whinging. It's character growth and it massively redeems him.

KT

This whole conversation about how much memory affects The Self is so fascinating, especially when it comes to Wesley. He's hailed as having changed more than almost every other Buffyverse character, but ironically a good chunk of that change was undone or restructured at the end of s4. But s5 Wesley is still very different from pre-Connor Wesley, and even though he now has those memories back, he isn't just a continuation of season 4 Wesley either. He's shattered the illusion, but does that make him more himself now that he knows? Does the truth even really matter when it's all just trauma? Wesley stole Connor in s3 because he believed he was the only one with the truth and acting on that "truth" was his moral imperative. And here again, him smashing the box in the name of truth could have ruined Connor's life AGAIN, it just happened to turn out alright.

Jason Veevaert

This episode made me like Conner more retroactively!

Rachael
>>25814351

I always think of Fred talking to the plant in "Spin the Bottle"... then throwing up in it. lol

Rachael

I'm so happy they brought Connor back. Tim Minear felt bad about how the character was treated/written in S4, and like Cordelia in "You're Welcome," it's great to see those two characters as they should be and helps alleviate some of the bitterness of S4. I think it's unambiguous that Connor's memories were restored. The menacing pose he strikes is the same one when he first appeared in S3. His dialogue basically tells Angel he knows: "I don't really like people touching my neck, you know?" "Nothing he can show me I haven't already seen." "I gotta go back to my life now." "You gotta do what you can to protect your family. I learned that from my father." Connor has a fleeting, almost hurt look when he walks away, but then he turns to stare at Angel with the tiniest rueful smile. Vincent Kartheiser is so good in this episode playing different behaviors and moods, sometimes just an intriguing flicker of an expression. It's a shame they didn't give him more to do in S4.

UTU49
>>25819862

Not me... ... I still hate Connor... but I blame the writing, not the actor.

cil

love this episode. i appreciate that they brought the connor/sahjhan prophecy from season 3 full circle here. connor was much more likable here for sure. if only he could've been like this his whole run on the show. regarding gunn, i think he's learned that no deal with wolfram and hart leads to any good. so when the new liaison tried to talk to him, gunn immediately shut him up.

Anonymous

"There are 2 sets of memories—those that happened and those that are fabricated. It's hard to tell which is which. Try to push reality out of your mind. Focus on the other memories. They were created for a reason. To hide from the truth? To endure it." I felt like the point was that first Connor had a way to hide from his resentment, and then he had a way to endure it. Either way, this was Connor with a way to handle his resentment.

UTU49

"I'm no little girl." "Jayne is a girl's name."

Anonymous

Vincent Kartheiser is such a good actor. I hope one day you watch Mad Men. He turned one the most douchey, privileged characters into the best character on the show.

Claire Eyles

God I love Illyria, "I've been hitting the half breed, he makes noise" LOL

Brent Justice

I don't think the answer is ambiguous at all, I think it is quite clear.

MrSkarred

Definitely seemed a bit ambiguous

Brandon Wiesner

It didn't seem ambiguous at all. His whole dialogue when he was leaving was pretty much spelling it out that he remembered.

David Caine

Turns out living in a hell dimension most of your life with a sociopath bloodlusting for vengeance as a surrogate father will poison your mind and soul beyond redemption, and affect your choices that will turn you into the equivalent of a teenage mass shooter. And Connor did have choice, but he was too deceived by Holtz and Jasmine and thus too weak and ignorant to make the right choice. Ironically, the pact with the evil Senior Partners with Angel gave Connor his humanity back. Angel risked his own tenuous grasp on humanity to give his son a clean slate. Angel's sacrifice was worth it. Ironically, Gunn there wants no more pacts with the Partners or any of them, knowing what happens after, and not even hears the offer. What Gunn and Wesley lost already can never be made up with any sacrifice. And it is a bit ambigous, but kinda not, since as soon as the box is broken Connor can kill Sahjhan. And his words were too on the nose afterward trying to hold on to his memories. But at the end he acknowledges his father Angel's sacrifice. That look as he walks away... This episode was too damn good with the layers and as a final(?) payoff for several characters.

Anonymous

Yeah I hated Connor until this episode, I actually liked him in this. Much better.

Anonymous

“Underneath” and “Origin” fit together so well. From meetings with beer to the wonder of worlds of shrimp, insensately lustful glaciers and a suburban holding dimension that will tear your heart out and leave it laying on the floor. Fitting, since “the worst spot in hell is reserved for those who betray.” Angel tries to ease Gunn's guilt by pointing out that all he did was sign a piece pf paper. Then Wesley finds the piece of paper that all Angel did was sign. Wesley has a conversation with another dead girlfriend in “Underneath,” and those two guys in the bar? Heartbreaking. If only Wes had known who the guys were and who was about to remember something he'd forgotten. Once again he is unable to trust Angel completely because “they're not that close.” This time they were separated by things Wes, and the others, didn't remember, thanks to Angel. Love seeing Connor without all the baggage from his formative years, too.

Loves Bitca

Things we never thought we'd see. Shan liking a memory loss episode, and Shan actually kinda liking Conner.

KiwiJello

Hahaha!!! I'm dying. Haven't even made it through the credits and Shan's throwing Conner under the bus and backing up! <3 I can't stand him either.

Melazond

I think that he remembered his old life, but that he also fully remembers his new overlaid life and that has found some equilibrium for him. (Edited "overlayed" lol)

Anonymous
>>25869046

Yeah, this makes the most sense. He doesn't let Angel in on it, so that he can keep a safe distance from all the otherworldly stuff but at the same time be aware of it all around him and his family.

Katherine Thoreson

I always felt that Conner does have his memories back, BUT, he was behind that magical barrier when the cube broke, so he didn't get hit with the full brunt of the memories coming back. So he can kind of remember who he was, but he is able to put it aside and continue to be who he is now, without, ya know, going postal or anything.

Loves Bitca

I also believe he has both memories overlaid. Which his fake memories and the personality it built helps him understand Angel much better. Hence his "My father taught me that" means he understands Everything Angel did, and understands it was him trying to do what was best for Connor.

Anouar

I have a question, where are the other Angel episodes, i've been on a holiday and now i'm back, and i want to watch the other episodes 15 through 18, but i can't find any.

Zoot!
>>25933163

Here you go: 5x15 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/angel-s05e15-in-28844418 5x16 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/angel-s05e16-28844454 5x17 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/angel-s05e17-29011881 5x18 - https://www.patreon.com/posts/angel-s05e18-29192636

Anouar

Thank you!

Anonymous

Great reactiom. I think Connor was much better in this one than any other eps he's been in.