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Several of you have already messaged me apologizing for having to cancel pledges in light of Patreon's questionable new fee schedule, which includes a 2.9% service fee as well as a $0.35 per pledge - in effect, the fees are now being shifted more to the patron rather than the creator. 

First of all, no one needs to apologize for having to make changes or cancellations to their pledges. At the end of the day, you give what you feel is worth it to you for as long as you can, but I do wish people wouldn't apologize for it. It's you who is helping ME create content, not the other way around. 

But the other truth is, these fees have always been there - the reason my pledges start at $2.00 instead of $1.00 is because of that nearly 40% that gets eaten on $1.00 pledges. I imagine Patreon thought they were helping creators that rely on large amounts of $1.00 pledges by making it so they get 95% of their pledges instead of the ~60% they were getting before. What they seemed to fail to take into account was how this would effect patrons who support large numbers of creators with small pledges. 

So, as Hank Green pointed out in a series of now-deleted tweets, there was no way patrons could know what the fees were that creators eat. Thing is, I don't think the onus is on the patron to know about these fees--creators like me have simply factored that into our monthly budget. If people pledge, for instance, so much per creation to me, I budgeted to see about 85% of that. That's just a part of the deal we accept by using this platform.


I think they wanted to be more transparent about just how much goes to fees and maintenance (like that would be a good PR move), but if the intent was to give "more" to the creator, all it did was just show how much of small pledges gets eaten up by fees. Hey, not only do you know, but you've incurred the fees! Aren't you thrilled.

The thing is, even though I'm not happy with this decision, there's not much I can do about it other than whine on Twitter like everyone else. If there is one thing PatreCon really impressed upon me, it was how much they do not care what I think about the way they structure their platform unless it's blind, effusive praise. Even if Patreon assumes that some patrons will make some choices about who they want to support. (i.e., if they supported ten creators at $1 each, they now support 6 creators at $1.35 each), I think the vast majority of creators would rather patrons don't have to choose who matters more to them because of a new fee system.

But if you do need to make changes to your pledges or jump ship on the platform altogether, you don't need to apologize for it. This is a voluntary service built on mutual goodwill, and I always appreciate what you can contribute, for as long as you can. It would be right shitty of me to start having ~*~expectations~*~ now. 

In short, I'm not surprised, Patreon. I'm just disappointed. Platforms are not your friend, no matter how much they try to position themselves as such. 

Yours in dead-inside-ness,

Lindsay

Comments

Anonymous

Thank you, Lindsay. This has been such a shitshow. I truly appreciate your viewpoint and hope this does not negatively affect you.

Anonymous

You are simply the best, most professional creator out there. I've truly enjoyed your insightful, detailed discussions of . . . pretty much everything. (Except "Dune", not sure about that one :-) Thank you for this letter. Not because it changed my views--I was still going to support creators--but for taking the time to explain it for the rest of us.

Anonymous

Thanks for this post- it's better than mine was. XD

Haldon Lindstrom

Thanks, Lindsay. I appreciate you wanting to reach out to us and let us know how you're handling the curveball patreon decided to throw you.

Gordon Stearns

I hope you continue to get the support you need. I will keep up my current pledges, but I considered retracting them - it's ridiculous that Patreon thinks they could get away with essentially pulling the rug out from under people, charging people more than they expected, without expecting any backlash.

Anonymous

I'm going to up my pledge for many of my favorite creators like you so that I can do my part in the wake of this change.

Kyle Williams

I'll keep pledging but what really bothers me is how they are trying to disguise this by making it look like it has to do with credit card fees in the hopes we'll blame them instead of Patreon. I make my living selling full time on ebay and all the fees are on my end. I also get about 85% of what people pay. Its worked fine for ebay for 20+ years so why these guys have to reinvent the wheel I don't know. I do have a suspicion that part of this change is so they can raise fees in the future without it seeming as big. If you want a 2% fee increase, just split it between creators & Patrons so it will look like 1% instead.

Anonymous

I really appreciate this note and your forthright-ness. TBH I was always a small pledge-er, and honestly your message makes me want to pledge a little more than I did before! I know it's a small thing, but just know I still support you. Your content, more than anyone else's, keeps me coming back for re-watches and more.

Anonymous

I don't really even know how much I pledge, until I check my account for the damage after the exchange rate. It's cool. This time last year I was pretty much at absolute zero in terms of discretionary spending, but my fortunes shifted somewhat, so it feels nice to spend money on things I like. You're a reliable creator and I admire your honesty and ethics among other qualities and yadadada you're fine, keep at it.

JM

We'll keep following you anywhere.

Anonymous

So before, my $10 pledge was reduced by their fees (undisclosed) to about $8.50... But now my $10 pledge wil cost me $10 + 2.9% + $0.35 = $10.64 but you will get 95% of the original pledge as a flat rate, so about $9.50 If I interpret this right it cost me more, but the creator gets more too, right?

Anonymous

I can understand why Patreon did this, why it has caused some makers of small pledges to withrdraw, and why creators are upset. However, I will definitely continue to support.

Anonymous

I should have become Patreon of you long before than I have, so I wont stop now.

Nicole Barovic

It'll be morbidly interesting to see whether the fee shift versus the dropped pledges results in a net gain or loss for creators.

lindsayellis

Yep, that's correct. Honestly the more I think about it the more it upsets me - it was always a business, but this move exploits the trust between patrons and creators so Patreon can pocket more. As someone on Twitter pointed out with Mikey Neumann, we (the creators) are basically being held hostage.

lindsayellis

Exactly - they've spent all this time cultivating a trust relationship between patrons and creators, and now slowly but surely they can exploit it more and more.

Anonymous

yeah this is a pretty shitty situation. I have no reason to dro my support for you though and I hope you don't see too much blowback

Anonymous

And another one... I'm sorry, I can't support this move. I know it wasn't your doing, it was Patreon, and THEY probably meant well, but the implications are... not acceptable. If, by the way, you found a better system, including a paypal account I could throw a payment at, I'd happily send it you.

Anonymous

The fees aren't there though. So I followed(ed) about 20 people on Patreon with small donations. Patreon charges me once a month. They pay one fee for that transaction. The new way charges a "transaction" fee for every single donation as though they had to collect each one individually instead of once a month. This is a blatant cash grab that has nothing to do with supporting creators. I don't have any extra cash to grab. I'll donate to paypals and such but I can't see myself continuing to pay for things via Patreon.

Anonymous

dead-inside-ness, the most honorable internet title.

Ano Ano

Thank you for this message. I agree that it's a really terrible move on Patreon's part. They are providing a service to the creators, not the patrons. Conceptually, it should be the creators who are paying the fee. As a patron, I want to give you money. I don't want to give Patreon money. The middle man being ostentatious about what they charge is just obnoxious. :/ I hope this change doesn't hurt creators too badly.

J. MacGillivray

I love your videos and I like supporting you. If this goes through, instead of sending money to you through Patreon, could I just send money directly to your paypal? Like say once a year I pay $25 to cover what I would have paid through Patreon in a year?

Anonymous

I have increased my pledge in order to counteract for people who cannot afford to pledge to Lindsay due to the fee. I am hoping enough like minded folk will do the same.

Anonymous

Same, I don't care about paying extra for fees; what I do care about is having those fees duplicated across every $1-2 payment. The only reason I was using Patreon at all is because I could split my donations across multiple creators and have one transaction fee taken out of the entire pool each month. If I could give everything at the same time once per year on Paypal, I suspect the math might work out better. Librepay would be even better, since they also allow you to consolidate donations to avoid extra payment/withdrawal fees.

Anonymous

I'm not much against having the fees on "our" side, than against the way patreon handled it. First the communication has been awful, and then I don't get the flat rate on all pledges. It gets ridiculously high for small pledges. I'm not abandoning patreon, but it has made me reconsider most of my pledges. Now I don't pledge 1$ to anyone. That means I pledge more to some creators (you, for example) but it also means I dropped some others (which I'm not really happy about) to try to keep the raw expenses the same.

Anonymous

It's a little frustrating that are most effected by this are the ones that pledge to a large number of patreon content creators. I wish that Patreon gave a bi monthly, yearly, or tri-monthly option to avoid the cost of processing fees. It may mean slower flow of income, but it also means less money is lost to processing.

Stephen B

Hi Lindsay, I am currently reviewing all my pledges with these changes as well. I think patrons have a right to feel substantially misled by Patreon to be honest. Are you saying that Patreon has always charged you a fee *per patron* rather than *per month*? Patreon always took 5%. Fine. Then their current fee structure says "1.9% + $0.30 per transaction". But I assumed the whole *benefit* was to have a single transfer charge, no matter how many patrons you had. So if you had $2000 in patron pledges after the 5% deduction, then the Stripe charge would be a single amount of $38.30. Has that never been the case?

Anonymous

Wow. Don't care. You're still worth it. Take my money.

Adequately Sized Dog

Bumping my pledge up $3 because $2.58 is where the new fee system equals the previous one.

Anonymous

Quite the obligatory post indeed!

Anonymous

btw keep up the good work. We're all counting on you. I know I am.

Mel Vitta

Personally I find it a little odd that so many patrons are jumping ship over this. I mean, I know everyone's financial situation is different, but a $1 pledge went from a dollar to $1.35. That... doesn't seem a justifiable enough reason to jump ship and stop supporting your creators. Now I see, like you said, if you're the kind of person who supports many creators each for $1, I guess that makes sense. But as usual, in addition to Patreon's blunder, I feel like patrons are overreacting and blowing things out of proportion as usual. I'm only a patron of yours and one other creator right now, so it's not going to affect me too much. I won't be changing my pledge. I'm actually happy to find out now you get to keep more of what I give you. IDK, I feel like if you really care about the creators you're supporting, this should be the silver lining you cling to. If Patreon decides to double down and stick to this, I'm sure we'll just have to ride out the drama and things will go back to normal... eventually... hopefully.

Anonymous

Thanks for letting me know. I have a number of artist friends, (and I was also thinking of broadcasting myself), who could use Patreon. There always seems to be a catch eh? Our society treats artists like crap. Nevertheless, perhaps a better way can be found and in the meantime, I shall continue to do the meagre little I can to support your exceptional work. It is very badly needed.

Sterling Treadwell

I kept my backing to you and a handful of others that I pay more than $1 and dropped everyone that was a buck or two. In dropping them they survey you and I marked the reason as not liking patreon's services or something and in the notes on every one i marked that the new fee structure was B.S. . I actually hope a lot of others do this. If they get hundreds or thousands of cancellations, all notating this fee schedule is the reason.. maybe they'll take notice. We're in an age where a lot of companies are looking for ways to nickel and dime consumers as much as they can and seeing it even feed into THSI site is really disappointing.

Anonymous

Yeah, this is especially frustrating to me. I wouldn't mind the new fees IF they charged all of my pledges at the same time. I do $1 or $2 pledges. On December 1, I was charged $7 for 5 different things. Under the new fee structure, I will be charged $10 for 5 different things (3 things were $1 each and 2 things were $2 each). I don't want to stiff creators out of money - I wouldn't use Patreon if that were the case - but charging each pledge individually so that all the micro pledges cost at least $.38 more doesn't make sense to me with all the reasons they have laid out.

Alex LordThorsen

I think the thing that makes me pissed off about this whole thing is that they can avoid most of this mess by just aggregating the transactions and transaction fee's (using several different methods) to minimize their incurred costs. therefor it's entirely possible for them to reduce low donation transaction fee's making it "cheaper" for people who want to spread out their donations. Instead it would just be cheaper to set up a recurring payment from a bank to a Paypal account or with a direct deposit.

Anonymous

I won't be unpledging to you because I can afford it thankfully, but have you considered any other alternatives to Patreon?

Anonymous

I will continue pledging. No hesitation from me. BUT if you have a Bitcoin, or Ethereum address, let us know... Get rid of the intermediaries.

Anonymous

Thx for all you do, but I regret I cannot support the fixed fee structure.

Anonymous

I have no plans on canceling my pledge. I don't see how a 2.9% service fee as well as a $0.35 per pledge is much higher than the $2 pledge per video I am doing now. I hope you don't lose many patreons and that you can keep doing awesome videos!

Anonymous

I totally agree with you. I support the same amount of creators and I can't understand why a nominal amount extra is making people freak out and canceling their subscription. :(

Anonymous

Increased my pledge a bit. Hopefully that should make up for... well, maybe one or two patrons who could no longer afford it. Bad times. Best of luck!

Anonymous

It’s been reversed. Yay.

Anonymous

Thank for you for this note of perspective.