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Pocahontas Was a Mistake (And Other Disney Hot Takes) (Patreon)

Published:
2017-07-16 04:43:05
Imported:
2022-03

Content

Brace yourselves...

Files

Pocahontas Was a Mistake (And Other Disney Hot Takes)

But there's a benefit to losing... you get to learn from your mistake.

Comments

Anonymous

Credits song album when?

Jay

Woo sneaky middle of the night update. Great work as always!

Anonymous

I was so excited when I saw this as a potential topic in that poll earlier this year and now I'm watching it and IT'S SO MUCH BETTER THAN I COULD HAVE EVER IMAGINED! I loved every part of that! Off the top of my head, the comparison at the end about the grandma advice was such a good catch, and so indicative of the differences between these films!

Anonymous
>>6183209

And for what it's worth, Pocahontus is totally a guilty pleasure for me, emphasis on the guilty because I'm aware of how fraught the historical context is. It's so pretty and I love the songs (somehow) and it and the Fox and the Hound and Balto taught 5-year-old me that racism is bad.

Anonymous

I've been waiting for this one for months

Anonymous

Really interesting perspective as always, just still not a fan of the 'mlg montage video' style cut (see 26:30) that you've started using more in your videos.

Anonymous

Feel rewarded for staying up late tonight. The side-by-side was interesting, I remember loving Pocahontas as a kid, but I haven't seen it in years and didn't even think about it when I watched Moana.

Anonymous

I am finally the first like on a Lindsay video. Tonight I paint with all the colors of the wind and cry to the blue corn moon. I seek adventure with the confidence of a historically inaccurate John Smith who speaks with the voice of Mad Max. Good job on fixing colonialism. I was gonna do it this weekend,but you pretty much have it sorted. Just as well,I need to refill my soda cabinet. It would have been tough to squeeze everything in.

Anonymous

Oh man, I'm really glad you tackled this. My infatuation with Pocahontas as a little kid was the awkward catalyst for a lot of learning and unlearning in adulthood. A resource you might have become familiar with in your research for this video, and one that has been indispensable to me as a youth librarian (with some modicum of responsibility for the books in our collection, and the books we select for reading clubs), is American Indians in Children's Literature, as well as any resources Debbie Reese has had a hand in. Reading While White is another great blog that incorporates many voices, and one that has shaped my understanding of why the question, "okay, but what is the BAD cultural appropriation?" is so fraught.

Gordon Stearns

Lilo and Stitch feels to me like the first time Disney was aware that Native children would watch the movie and potentially see themselves in the characters. Part of the problem with Poccahuntas is that it so clearly doesn't even consider that. That doesn't make the later movies perfect or even good, but I think that attitude change was essential in Disney's course correction, as it were. Great video, gave me a lot to think about.

Lauren R

The only thing I ever liked about Pocahontas was the music, the songs are catchy in themselves even if they are shallow and kind of offensive. I'm always interested in development processes and the comment Disney made about To Kill A Mockingbird is very telling about the kind of movies they make. The way Disney adapts stories or historical properties was most baffling to me as a kid in the 90s in that post-Beauty and the Beast phase where they had a series of "serious" movies that were held in their own cuckhold by way of being "family friendly" but still alienating the audience by not being a film for anyone. Hercules, for its flaws and inaccuracy to mythology, at least wasn't TRYING for the Oscar. Pocahontas and Tarzan were pretty dull characters to me as a kid. Anyway, you've given me a lot to think about and to reevaluate. I need to rewatch Lilo and Stitch some time.

Chelsea Monk

Some of your best work. Interesting to see the evolution of Disney's portrayal of indigenous people over the last 20 odd years. BTW Hindi Pretty Woman is one of my favourite thing of all the things... Shah Rukh Khan rapping in english while wearing a hoodie and trying to do "cool hip hop arm movements" is pure joy matched only by Dard E Disco. (I saw the Terrence Malick New World for the first time the other day and noticed not only did it have Irene Bedard but also Christian Bale.)

Anonymous

I remember eating that Pocahontas chocolate. I think it might be my first candy-related memory.

Anonymous

There's a place in my mind where I go to commune with the divine, or talk to myself, I'm not too phased which it is (especially after reading "I am Spock"). Or it's not a place but a process... Anyway the spirit-grandma said to Moana almost exactly what the goddess (as I usually refer to her) said to me, and which I noted down in my journal in '10 when I was in Paris and hiding out from the world: "If you really want to come with me, Solomon, like you say you do, I'll take you under my wing. But you have something to look forward to." It then segues into a quote "not from the goddess, but my sister" about not having to kill every spider I saw. I'd call that part of that year some of my darkest moments, where I was looking over a lot of abysses. Perhaps that's why that scene, and that memory of that auto-communication, and your ability to pinpoint with such precision why that scene is better than the call-to-finish-an-adventure in Pocahontas, combined, threatened to make me cry... but, god-damn, there'll be plenty of time for that, so I'm going to fidget with my clothes until I regain my composure, instead of falling apart of a not-particularly-emotion-driven post-colonial critique of a Disney movie (p.s., I just love listening to you talk). But I think the scene works so well because it taps into an emotional truth; the desire in times of hardship for the option of release, and having secured that comfort, the desire not to take it and to fight on is restored. A temptation narrative where temptation is not viewed as failure or judgement, but where the choices presented serve to make the hero what she wants. I just watched something yesterday called "The ballerina's tale" and it occurs to me that that's what's missing from that (documentary) story, as it played out. Feeling the pressure and weight to represent her community, as a dancer and person of colour and given a rare role in a ballet, Misty Copeland pushed on ahead and danced with a fracture, causing herself long-term damage. And this was a fascinating documentary and fascinating world/character. But for some reason they tacked on "Do what you dream" at the end and called the story inspiring. In some ways it was, but in other ways, pressure was placed on a young person that ought not to have been, and the overcoming of the obstacle ought not to have been her responsibility, just so as not to "let so many people down".

Robin Isomaa

Lindsay, it's pretty evil to just play a couple seconds from "How Far I'll Go"... I had to pause the video to finish the song!

Anonymous

I would never show my 4 year old daughter Pocahontas, but I love Moana to death, even if it isn't perfect. Also How Far I'll Go makes me cry :) Yes, I had to go listen to the whole thing again too. Also You're Welcome is an awesome video :D Even if Moana's content isn't 1:1 accurate with the real life myths and most of the major decision makers were old white men, I think it is a really positive piece of commercial art that shows we're going in the right direction when it comes to cultural sensitivity.

Anonymous

Yay! Your videos always make my day. This got me thinking about the minor backlash Frozen got on the appropriation of Sámi culture. You've still got a dominant culture and a minority culture there but it raises the question of how are things affected when the dominant culture doesn't have a direct relationship to what it's depicting. Even over Brave I remember seeing one or two disgruntled mutterings that, in some way, I understood why.

Anonymous

Amazing as always.

Anonymous

Hey you did it! You released it! (it's great by the way) but being an annoying person on the internet I would still like to see the Saving Mr Banks/Disney one as well.

Anonymous

Brilliant work. I mean, of course. I was curious about your decision not to include Atlantis: The Lost Empire. Though Atlantis is a fictional civilization, they nonetheless, are stylized as indigenous, native peoples, and is an appropriation hodgepodge from Polynesia to Latin America to Southeast Asia and the film falls into many of the same tropes that Pocahontas, Brother Bear and Moana do. I was wondering how you came to the decision to not include it.

Anonymous

Thank you for reminding me that I liked Lilo and Stitch. I watched Moana with my mother recently and we were both pretty ambivalent about it, but I've absolutely hated every other Disney "princess" movie so this is probably progress? I like the soundtrack, which is something I don't think I've said since Lion King. The same thing over and over again is so boring. I wish Moana and Lilo and Stitch had done better at the box office just to push for something different than Disney's average coming of age romances.

Anonymous
>>6185985

Note to self: don't post anything, anywhere at any hour, drunk or sober, that begins "There's a place in my mind where I go to commune with the divine..."

Anonymous

In your poll, Saving Mr Banks and historical revision was one of the choices. I guess that's next?

Anonymous

lol@ the blood quantums. Honestly I feel pretty young for being 1/16, but anything less than half just comes off as awkward when considering the issues.

Anonymous

I never bothered with Lilo and Stitch, but seeing how positively you compared it to Pocahontas means I've got to watch it now. Great video!

Anonymous

I showed this to my dad a few days ago, mostly because his definition of cultural appropriation was "Oberlin students saying complaining about Bahn Mi" (link: <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/the-food-fight-at-oberlin-college/421401/)," rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/12/the-food-fight-at-oberlin-college/421401/),</a> and while he did like the video, I think it says something when he mutters "But I liked the Enchanted Tiki Room" in the middle of the video.

Anonymous

Why was my name not on the patrons list? :(

Anonymous

This video was much great. Good job, Lindsay Ellis.

Anonymous
>>6193661

I don't think Atlantis counts. It's not like you can appropriate from a culture that doesn't exist in the first place.

Haldon Lindstrom

I just read this article about Pixar's Coco and how they tried to deal with the cultural appropriation issue. Thought you might enjoy <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/movies/coco-pixar-politics.html?hpw&amp;rref=movies&amp;action=click&amp;pgtype=Homepage&amp;module=well-region&amp;region=bottom-well&amp;WT.nav=bottom-well" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/19/movies/coco-pixar-politics.html?hpw&amp;rref=movies&amp;action=click&amp;pgtype=Homepage&amp;module=well-region&amp;region=bottom-well&amp;WT.nav=bottom-well</a>