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Progress update: dialogue mechanics... (Patreon)

Published:
2018-02-11 01:31:05
Imported:
2020-09

Content

[Abelius]: Hi there,

It's been a while since the last time I informed you guys about our evil plans.

If you've been following the Trello board you won't have seen any spectacular movement. That's not because I've been sitting on my ass doing nothing (that's one thing I fantasize about a lot...), but because I've needed to find new solutions to a recurrent problem...: how to design dialogue trees in a way that I don't end up wanting to kill myself when this thing actually grows to our intended size.

I mean, you can't write dialogues like if you were writing a novel or a short story. The main problem here, in this kind of sandbox game, is that you need to allow for reiteration AND character development. And balancing those two things is like trying to mix a 'Choose Your Own Adventure' book with an RPG video game.

Nevertheless, several days ago I naively started to write Cenvir's 'sex quest' progress with some idea of what I wanted to do with him, but improvising when it came to the flow of events... that was a waste of time.

Chaos hit the whole picture pretty hard. Just take a look at this mess...:

https://imgur.com/1Xd9qqm

...and that's only about a 10% of Cenvir's dialogue nodes needed for v0.2!

I planted my gaze upon that thing in the mornings and I needed about ten minutes just to know where I left the day before...

'Pot guy' v0.1 dialogue and scenes took me about two weeks to make them... and they're too linear for my own taste.

So, I needed to simplify things and get to design the actual game mechanics before anything else.

How did I really wanted this kind of 'sex quests' dialogues to flow, for every similar character...?

How could I visualize better the important nodes that make the conversation and animations play?

How to avoid plot inconsistencies without needing to resource to dozens of boolean flags, that later on would be a nightmare to track?

Therefore, I didn't have another option than to stop running forward, take some steps back, and contemplate for some time.

The result is that diagram you see up there.

Its blurriness is intended (it contains spoilers), but it is its shape and complexity what I'd like that you appreciate. As I said, I want to make a sandbox game here, so that flowchart and its multiple paths will serve me as an expandable template that I'll use to get my bearings when I start making new dialogue trees for other NPCs that our heroine will "interact" with in the future.

It follows another game mechanic logic that I've needed to design these days: the 'Lust tiers'. You can call them 'sex levels' if you prefer, as they measure how our foxy lady regards having sex with random lizards and other anthropomorphic creatures in this world.

You can take a look here if you don't mind some mild spoilers.

I started with just five in my mind, but I've ended up with eleven in my hands. They go from "Don't even think about touching me!" to "Gang-bang me silly, I beg you!" states of mind for her.

And their purpose is to give dialogues the adequate tone according to her current 'sexperience'. Because it wouldn't make much sense to act all prim and proper while licking a lizard lollipop, just after returning from a bukkake party with half the village, right...?

What does that mean? That I need to allow for FIVE (!) dialogue versions for every sex action for each scene. And that is without counting our secondary stat 'Submission', that will play a definite role for some NPCs out there...

But...! If I follow that template to the letter... well, I'll still have HUGE conversation trees, but I'll be able to expand and understand them much, much better.

So, to summarize... I've been investing time into things that will go a long way to speed up future development of the story. Because if you think about it... even being this game a porn game... it's all about story-telling.

If we just wanted to present to you a succession of pretty sex animations... well, we could have done that long ago. But I don't feel that is the reason you guys are supporting us month after month.

Mmm well, forgive me for this huge wall of text. The work continues towards v0.2! ^_^

Files

Comments

Aromatic Hyena

Maybe you need to be focusing less on dialogue, I’m sure everyone is more concerned about gameplay and sex scenes, I’d suggest keeping it kind of light because people will lose their erections in the time it takes to read all that

Wolfman

I agree somewhat some good dialogue is great but don't make it to in depth

Wolfman

I really just can't wait for version 0.2

Special One

TBH pretty sex scenes is the reason we support you not the story telling!

Anonymous

I disagree with most comments here. If I wanted to just jerk off to pretty animations then there's a lot of alternatives to sex games. Dialogue and story are the main components that you can get out of a sex game and not hentai, so I appreciate the dedication on the devs part.

centerflag982
>>10068613

Frankly, I couldn't possibly disagree more. If all I cared about was seeing a foxgirl get fucked, I'd go find some free SFM video somewhere, not pledge $5 a month here. And gameplay? Did you ever even play the original LoK or any of the games it inspired? The "gameplay" primarily consists of walking around talking to people. It literally EXISTS to drive the dialogue.

Anonymous

If you guys don't want a in-depth story, maybe go back to the previously released Krystal games. Most of us in the discord and long time supporters of this project would like to see a fully fleshed out LOK Game. Focusing on game play and sex scenes is good in theory, but will quickly cause people to lose interest in a game, which is bad game design. The LOK team and Abelius will not rush the game just because you want to have a quickie before going to bed.

centerflag982
>>10070081

Yeah, no. I can get "pretty sex scenes" anywhere - the internet has no shortage of Krystal porn. What I *can't* get just anywhere is quality writing to go along with it. Primarily because unfortunately most creators just take the easy route and cater to folks like you.

Wolfy panda

Keep up the good work can't wait to play the new update^^

Wolfy panda

I bet the slave path dialogue is going to be great!

Anonymous

After reading posts like these I've noticed just how big and complex this game is going to be when finished. IMO it's really refreshing to see developers with so much passion (and patience, lol) for what they're doing. I can see that it's still a very early stage and in many cases you focus on upgrading and making the gameplay mechanics better/smoother (like in this instance) so it helps you in the future development. This game is gonna be huge when finished. Keep up the good work!

Anonymous

As far as i see it, we have people here that go to bouth extremes. As this is a pornographic game, people want to make sure the game doesn't turn into a game with few pornographic elements. So I think people who say "dont over focus on story" want to make make sure the game doesn't get watered down out of the original claimed type of game. On the other side we have the people who say "we want more story and care less about the animations". These people see that the game part of this game is mostly a narrative one with animations as a bonus. Now, i believe that the good balance of bouth narrative and animations(what was done so far) is a good way to go. The one thing i can't agree with or defend Is saying "theres other porn out there". I got into this games patron cause i saw the grate art they are making for it, that i can't get anywhere else and stay cause i believe i can trust them to make it a good game with grate art and gameplay.

centerflag982
>>10073926

>So I think people who say "dont over focus on story" want to make make sure the game doesn't get watered down out of the original claimed type of game You mean the original claims of a story-focused game? Those claims? "However, a LOT of effort is also being put into the story and dialogues." This has been in the project description FROM THE BEGINNING. If folks chose to completely skip over the description and just look at pretty pictures before pledging, that's their own fault. It's the rest of us, who actually understood the intent behind the project, who are worried about it being "watered down" to appease the folks who just want a bunch of strung-together sex scenes.

Anonymous

but its good to have lot of sex scenes in a game. and i hope it will finish in the end :( lot of games stay in middle. anw i also ask when it will be a release if i may ask :)

Anonymous

The tree of choises is pretty complex indeed, i even tried already to make 2 saves different, where in first, Krystal is a mindfull girl and does things with a reason ... or another, most of the time, and the second save its just a full whore mode. I think it's interesting both ways.

Anonymous

BTW, i found some sources for inspiration about lizard people and thier customs here: <a href="http://kissanime.ru/Anime/Overlord-II" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">http://kissanime.ru/Anime/Overlord-II</a> (episodes 2-5).

kuja

[Abelius]: I see some degree of drama has ensued after publishing this post... :-D There's no need for passionate arguments. Our vision about how this game should come to life is clear and I'm not changing my stance on that. I see adult games the same as any mainstream video game out there. That is... as 'interactive experiences', as those guys at 'Extra Credits' Youtube channel like to say. And any game that achieves to add a nice experience to a player's memory is good in my books. Dialogues, if solid and written well, capture you to a different dimension. Raw porn doesn't do that for you. Example: that successful game that many of you must know by now...: Gone Girl Gone Bad, from EvaKiss. That VN has such a comprehensive dialogue tree that just thinking about the effort the creator has put on it, makes my mind go flying. But... take a look at the art. Not saying is horrible! It's cute, but certainly not epic. So the selling point of that game is its story AND interactivity... and it's at 32th position in Graphtreon. I guess that says it all. Nevertheless, we're going to try to balance gameplay! Kuja will continue doing his best and I'll not compromise other aspects of development in favor of dialogues only. But make no mistake: this is necessary. Today, for the first time in many, I've been able to put together something without wanting to cry. ^_^ Oh, and there's also that little thing of readying the dialogue structure so it supports cheating, when the console finally comes to life, without going to hell because you weren't supposed to be at a specific lust level before another quest state triggered...

Anonymous

how far does the submission part go? or is it not proper yet? (for the 0.1.2 build)

kuja
>>10093854

Both Submission and Respect have no influence in gameplay. For now.

TerminuS
>>10083098

Hey. Great to know you're putting so much work into enabling players to have a broad and individual experience. It's always great to have multiple paths and a couple of stats that can influence the game and the protagonists behavior significantly. I think it's not an exaggeration to say there are enough AAA games that put less effort into their story and dialogue than some of the good adult games I have been seeing here on Patreon. I have a question though: Is there a possibility for Krystal to remain on a lower Lust tier (like tier 9 or 10) and still access most scenes and have her not say "no" all the time. I'm mainly asking because while it is very popular I am personally not a fan of the "f*k my brains out" slut characters in adult media. I like it more if they are on an in-between level where they are still trying to justify what they are doing somehow or have the feeling they need to do it (to achieve their goals or to survive). I know this is a state that technically could not go on forever, but I hope there will also be the option for becoming "used to" this kind of lifestyle as member of the tribe while not being all like "give me c**** now!". I guess this is where the submission stat could come in. Again, I'm just asking. If this is too complicated then don't worry. Also, this is meant long-term. I do obviously understand that I can not expect 0.2 to have excessive amounts of content already. Also, the teaser you put in about her "getting her mouth to work" if you are unable to clean the pot. Will that be in one of the next versions? Or will we get more of the creepy guy? (I'm horrible, I know :D ) Last question (sorry for asking so many): Maybe that's more of a request or a potential idea for you. I'm a real sucker for collars on girls. And it would fit the whole furry/animal girl theme. Could you consider building in something involving that in the future? That would be amazing. And since you mentioned Good Girl Gone Bad, there is actually another game/developer that I found some time ago and stuck with due to their amazing work, passion and relationship with their supporters. Hreinn Games. They did Noxian Nights, and they're doing KoD atm. Sierra also does The Last Sovereign as far as I know. I definitely recommend them to anyone who is looking for good quality writing and art as well as reliable updates. Anyway, I hope you don't mind me mentioning them here, maybe you can check them out yourself sometime, since you seem to be interested in the work of other adult game devs as well. Keep up the good work and don't get discouraged by people disagreeing with you or haters. I'm expecting great things ^^

Anonymous

Unrelated: Is the suggestions board permanently taken down from Trello?

Anonymous

If there will be an option to keep the reluctant dialogue regardless of level for all the submissives out there it'll be even better (in my opinion). I get off more to the reluctant/forced side of things personally.

kuja
>>10247117

What you propose fits in better with the "alternative" storyline, not the main one we're developing atm. The only exception would be 'Creepy Guy' advances, because he's a bastard and even with a high Lust level, she wouldn't want to have sex with him.