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Grey Rewatches: Copyright, Forever Less One Day (Patreon)

Published:
2024-01-08 16:47:30
Edited:
2024-01-17 22:37:48
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Brian M

I still remember when this channel was new content and not just react videos smh Btw I love these “podcasts” for Bees, please keep them coming whenever the mood strikes you! And sorry to hear about the return of Covid to your household. I hope it’s far less debilitating than last time!

spiderbruce026

Good lord! A burglary and COVID! Hope things turn around for Castle Grey *real* quick.

David Collins

You know this already, but you're very hard on yourself. When you were noticing all of the pauses in between narration, even after you pointed it out, I don't really notice. It definitely sounds like you. I did go back and listen to a section of newer stuff and I do notice that you do make sure that everything gets crammed together. It is something that I've heard other people complain about when people are making podcasts, but it seems unnatural. You yourself, and many other channel creators edit every single pause out. Some people even speed themselves up sometimes. Anyway, I think my point was you're too hard on yourself. But you have sharpened up your game amazingly. You doing well enough on explaining some of these concepts that I've shared these out with other people and had conversations based upon the topics you're covering. So keep it up cuz it's awesome.

Christopher Upchurch

Whenever I watch one of Gray's old videos it always seems like he's speaking very quickly.

Ryan

Rest. Rest rest rest. Thanks for the throwback!

Victor Geislinger

This is exactly why I became a Bonnie Bee: to hear Grey cringe at his past self :D Good thing that guy is dead. But on a serious note, it's great how far the videos have come and I find it amazing how much has changed over the past... (*looks at video publish date*) 12 years! Happy New Year and hope you (and Lady Grey) feel well soon!

Jemuel Gardner

I’m on the same boat about Star Wars. Never again! … Except for Andor, which was fantastic. But it might as well have been an original story in an unrelated universe. No The Force, no Wookiees, no Starwalkers: just a big ol’ Empire and people stuck against the wall.

Parker Bond

I remember really liking this video back then and think it still makes some great points. You definitely have improved but these old ones are still good imo.

Ezra

I'm not surprised they let the copyright run out, they spent the last 25 years expanding their umbrella so large that Mickey is just a narrow slice of a titanic pie. He's just as good to them as only a trademark.

Frozen_Thorn

It's kind of bizarre to remember just how much people cared about Star Wars. They were fun movies but the obsession people had with the franchise was insane. Disney really has driven the franchise into the ground to the point that nobody seems to care about those original releases. It's still popular but not in the overwhelming behemoth that it once was.

frank sands

First of all, get better soon! I hope that you and ms grey are a lot better now. Second of all, regarding Star Wars you have every reason for your "Scarlet O'Hara moment" (a sentence I'm definitely going to steal). Third of all, of you want to get back on the SW boat, watch Andor! It's soooo good. A great espionage series with SW sprinkled on top. Fourth of all, I will defend past grey on the George Lucas argument: the people that extended copyright were saying that they needed more time to recover the investment they did and past grey is show exactly how much money Lucas made in that time. This way I think it's a very good argument. Of course that only a very small percentage of copyrighted work will be as lucrative as Star Wars, but the extreme examples are always the best ones. Fifth of all, I had this discussion with a friend of how long the copyright time should be, and he was of the opinion that literally as soon as the creator is dead, all of their work should be in the public domain. Exactly because this would enable other creators to reimagine the published works and prevent heirs and companies to live off from said work. I have to say that I'm more and more agreeing with him. Who knows how many brilliant stories we've missed, like Del Toro's Pinocchio, because Dusney has an iron fist for a century in all their stories? Sixth of all, I love your work and love this kind of commentary on your work

Kraken Artificer
>>126464545

Definitely too hard on yourself, Grey. Guess what? After more than a decade of practicing art, an artist has gotten better at it! That's not you being awful 12 years ago, that's you having improved. And as David says, even though your modern videos are _more_ effective, I still use the old videos when someone needs an explanation of where Old Zealand is or how the UK is related to England. And when you hold past!you to current!you's standards, you tacitly encourage those listening to not publish their own art, because they know that they'll find it cringe 10 years later and that means it's objectively bad now. Past-Grey had to make the best content he knew how to do in order for current-Grey to be where he is now. And that was very worthwhile. So keep it up; you're doing awesome and we like having it around.

The Duke In Purple~

I'm so sorry you had to endure Obi Wan, when Andor was right there, ready to give you hope. 😅

Randall Wald

I can barely hear the pauses even when they're explicitly pointed out, and I had no idea they were there when watching the video on its own (which I did immediately prior to watching this retrospective). Separately, I think the reason Disney allowed Steamboat Willie into the public domain is they've worked for over a decade to enshrine Mickey Mouse's characteristic elements as trademarks, which don't expire. So you can only use the public domain parts if you manage to avoid infringing on trademark, which is very difficult (especially if your creative work isn't sufficiently dissimilar to anything Disney would make as to not risk viewers accidentally associating your work with Disney's trademarks).

Raúl Arturo Chávez Sarmiento

I doubt Grey will make a new video on copyright since he always tries to explore new interests in his videos, but it would be great if he improved on some of the old ones using the experience in arguing he has aquired during these years. Although, I never thought of the George Lucas argument as a "he is too rich, he doesn't need more copyright" kind of argument; I'd thought of it as a "the original amount of time was a reasonably long enough time to earn from a creative work; and here is an example" kind of argument.

David Weintraub

One reason for the length of a copyright was how valuable a work was after a set time. Long ago in a galaxy far way, there were no Funko pops. There were no movie universes. There were no happy meal toys. There were no comic book series. There were no streaming releases. You wrote a book or play, people bought it or saw it, and that was it. There were probably no sequels. After a brief time, the value for the author was minimal. The main source of income for The Adventure of Tom Sawyer now is school kids buying it for English class. It’s much more valuable as a public work. Let the copyright expire early. Let’s look at Star Wars like you did. It’s still valuable even though the original author himself, George Lucas, himself no longer controls it. There are cartoons, TV shows, toys, crossover tie-ins. More movies. If you are the Disney Corporation (really, they own that too?) you don’t want someone destroying the value of the Star Wars franchise by producing a porn video of Princes Leia and Jabba the Hutt. The real issue with copyright isn’t that I can’t make my Princess Leia porn video because Star Wars is still a valuable property. It’s the 99% of copyrighted works that have little economic value. PBS produced a stunning documentary called Eyes on the Prize: America's Civil Rights Movement. By the mid-1990s, licensing ran out on most of the clips and music used. This documentary could not be shown. It took years tracking down the dozens of copyright holders. There was no amazing gold mine to be made with these copyrighted works, but they still were copyrighted and thus couldn’t be used without permission. A valuable creative work couldn’t be shown. Think of all those 1940s superheroes during the golden age of comic books that saw three or four issues and were never heard from again. You can’t riff on these. Think of novels no longer in print and no one even knows where the author is or if they are still alive. You can’t use those. Think of the thousands of one hit wonder songs written by teams of musicians in Tin Pan Alley. You can’t use those either. The real issue isn’t the few amazingly long lived valuable works. The problem is that the copyright law was written exclusively for those few works in mind, and have dragged the mass majority of works into a copyright purgatory. We need a new way of thinking of copyright that allows valuable franchises to remain protected while allowing the vast majority of copyrighted works to enter public use before they are lost.

zecrunchyspider

4 years. In modern media, if you can't push above the atmosphere of 'meh' to reach the space of greatness... Then your IP will be dead. You may as well let someone else try. At the very least, people would be more open to collaboration in a fictional setting/universe.

Bonnie Fiddis

I will never not react when he starts a video addressing “Bonnie Bees” as if it’s saying my name 😂 I think you’re too harsh on past Grey but I do agree that your new videos are much more concise and coherent. It was definitely a surprise to see that Disney didn’t pull a last second copyright extension. It will be interesting to see what DC tries in the next decade as their properties slowly enter public domain too, starting with Superman in 2034.

Lopoi

Hope you get better soon. I think copyright is fine as it is, maybe needs some clause to make sure the work is "in use" to avoid people just sitting on copyright to block others from doing something. But the barries that copyright create are sometimes also a incentive for people to be more creative and make new things. It's like you can't make a super mario game, but you can make your own character and add your spin to it and so on.

Benjamin Maier

Hey man, hope you guys get better soon. Castle grey shall remain undefeated💪🏼

Charles Thames
>>126468339

Andor stands alone. It has serious "the teacher/mods aren't looking! make something you care about!" vibes; where someone got to make an interesting character study of how a person becomes radicalized against an oppressive regime and how that regime mistreats even those loyal to it, with spaceships. Which could not be a starker contrast against Abrams', "maybe we should have planned the trilogy beforehand" comment and attitude. Much less most of the other shows being about as bright and full of life as microwaved spinach. Disney and others seem to have let the finance/marketing guys get in charge and forgot how to actually do their core business.

frank sands
>>126468339

Hollywood and the big studios keep learning the wrong lessons. Instead of "people will watch compelling stories" they see "Star Wars made a lot of money: we need more Star Wars!"

Daniel Ingram

Get better soon! For what it's worth I think you are being a little harsh on past Grey, but then again we are all our own greatest critics. I think how much money George Lucas (or any creator) made is relevant when discussing their motivations, the point being their are lots of opportunities to make money from a creative work in the first few decades of it's existence, and so having copyright beyond that doesn't necessarily motivate creatives more. And although official copyright has expired I think Disney will still try to make using their old stuff incredibly difficult in a similar way to how they'd make making a new Cinderella incredibly difficult; by utilising any elements that are still in their copyright. So in a way the video isn't completely outdated. Final point is I think it's funny how since this video's publishing your two main villains (Disney and Lucas) have combined into one super villain! Lol :D

J L

Thank you for reviewing this, it's an interesting video for sure. I do have two comments though: 1) I don't think the pauses that you were stuck on are actually bad at all. The "continuous talking forever no pauses" thing is a very recent trend that I don't actually prefer. 2) Your commentary at the end that it seems like there are two camps in copyright opinions and that's it's either all or nothing (copyright forever or no copyright at all) seems a little dismissive. It seems exactly like an argument that you would call yourself on in a video just like this one. I don't think very many people at all legitimately think that copyright shouldn't exist at all. There's a lot of people who think that stealing is okay, but if you asked them, they wouldn't actually agree that copyright should be removed entirely.

Chris

Thanks for re-living this with us and sharing your thoughts! Also, I hope you and Lady Grey feel better quickly. As an IP lawyer, I totally agree with you (since both Now-Grey and Past-Grey agree on the fundamentals, I don't have to differentiate). I also want strong, short(er) IP protection. Patents have stayed pretty much the same over time* and that's been genuinely fine. Unfortunately, I also agree with Now-Grey that this is one of my least favorite videos. Like you, I agree with the points but dislike the arguments. I DO think you're being too hard on yourself for the style and pauses, though. Those pauses made a lot more sense when you were talking 500 MPH. Had to give us a chance to process and catch up! :) Thanks for all you do and I look forward to the next video. * - we went from 17 to 20 year term in 1995, but we also started counting from time of filing rather than time of allowance, so it was roughly equivalent.

Liam Pender

So many people in london have come down with covid over the last month

Melnoli

I agree with 'strong and limited' regarding copyright, and only have one more caveat- I truly believe that copywrite should only belong to people and not corporations.

Jeremy

I have no issues with the pauses, but also no issues with no pauses. I think your wording is fine.

enchantedsleeper
>>126500659

I had it at the end of Nov/first week of Dec... but I know folks outside of London who had it around that time too

enchantedsleeper
>>126472043

I took it in that way, too, but I think now!Grey's point is that Star Wars is a bad franchise to make that point with. Most creators won't accomplish that kind of success in 28 years. I do think, though, that the fact Disney has bought up Star Wars actually reinforces past!Grey's point about corporations buying everything. It shows that they're the real beneficiaries of copyright law at the end of the day, and not creators. So even if you want strong and long copyright for the sake of creators, you can't deny that it's currently being abused by corporations.

Duncan Moore

It's a good fisk of the video - I'd agree with your assessment on it that the position is alright but very badly argued. I'm basically in a similar boat on my views on coypright, though maybe a smidge more "copyright bad" than you, I think there are bigger issues with it than just the term it applies for while recognising why it's there. I don't think it's a very lonely position to be honest. Also, I'm going to join in the chorus of people saying the pauses were fine and that I hope you get better soon! (Very strong disagree on Star Wars sequels vs prequels though! :P)

Raúl Arturo Chávez Sarmiento
>>126472043

Yes, you (and Grey) are right, a top selling creative work is not representative of the industry. A study on the industry would be more appropriate; however, the value of a creative work is always subjective (although there are always clever people designing such studies). Maybe in order not to prevent other creators to build on recent but not so recent work, a diminishing amount of control would be more appropriate.

Trevin Beattie

I don’t know why you’re making so many complaints about this video; I still enjoy it. But if you believe current you has better arguments to make about copyright terms, please make a new video about it! 🤗

BrutusTheCat

You are uncomfortable with the younger* version of you. If I personally had to put a number on copyright, I'm thinking somewhere around 50 years is a good length of time. Basically anyone in your generational cohort wouldn't have access to your work, it would really fall to those born 20ish years after the publication who would have access to it in the early parts of their working career. Edit: The point I got with the Mario coin scene, wasn't that George Lucas managed to make a lot of money with Star Wars, I understood it to mean in the 28 year period after a New Hope released, there were enough opportunities to make money off of his earlier work, regardless of success. I would say the same thing about Michael Pressman and his The Bad News Bears in Breaking Training.

Sasha

Get well soon! <3

jan Melantu

I think your position of “Copyright should be strong but limited” is argued much better by Tom Scott’s video “YouTube’s copyright system isn’t broken. The world’s is”

Wesley Hunt

Lots of people are confusing copyright with trademark. Now, Disney is passing off trademark law as copyright law, which is just as bad.

Pax Man

Topics like this really make me miss HI. I would've loved to hear you and Brady talk about this 😞. This video and Hi are both 10 years old now, maybe you'll consider revisiting HI aswell.

Riley Cole

You and Brady should do a review of the "Andor" TV show. It is the only genuinely good Star Wars TV show on Disney Plus. It starts a little slow in the first few episodes but it gradually picks up and becomes really good/ compelling by the end.

Warren Garabrandt

Having a pause here and there is actually helpful to the viewer (at least to me), because it gives our brains a chance to finish processing what we just heard and be ready for the next idea. Having it pointed out over and over, I would argue, is way more distracting than the pause itself. Just a thought.

Alexander the Pretty Good

You've made all of your new work follow rules that mostly don't strike me as super important tbh. 1. no people who are currently alive (seems arbitrary, is it really important to not mention JK Rowling, or Stewart Brand?) 2. no pauses (not a big deal to me, but I do see how this improves quality) 3. no incomplete exploration of arguments (You'd need to target a different style of video, something 30 minutes long say)

Jo Mason

Hey Grey, hope you and Lady Grey recover well. (Also I get why you refer to your partner as "Lady Grey" but it always make me think either of Lady Jane Grey or of the Earl Grey tea variant :D

Jo Mason

I *understand* most of your self-criticism here, but the only one I'm fully on board with is the not-fully-explaining about public-domain stuff ending up sort of folded back into copyright. Also it's interesting that the video, towards the end, was talking about no-one else being able to make stories about Star Wars, Harry Potter and .... Lord of the Rings. Yeah that last one is an odd one out, but boy howdy the copyright situation with Tolkien's works is COMPLEX. Because there's general copyright (extended by laws and his family trust) but then there's the rights for film adaptations, which he sold in his lifetime and... ugh. It's a mess.

Freezeezy3

I think Grey asked the chatbot to do commentary in the style of H Jon Benjamin

Rejinx

I see copyright in general as largely theft from the public domain.

Miy Eterp

Welp oof 😅, anyways just joined Wall of Thanks.

Dan M

I disagree somewhat in your critique of the monetary aspect. Copyright, at it's core, is a finance-oriented law. It is relevant to what degree a period of time allows for encouraging science/books/movies. I get not wanting to say "rich=bad" but that doesn't conflict with your arguement, which is that copyright is intended to promote production of new things. At the point it isn't just promoting things but instead is simply protecting a further accumulating of wealth, it is no longer functioning with its original intent but instead is serving as a method for people to continue milking an idea, well past their lifetime. If anything, that level of monitary reward discourages new works, since people who can rely on their copyright protect materials have no financial incentive to produce newer works. They simply produce one successful work and then have little reasons to continue that production. In short: eliminating the monetary argument igores a key aspect of what copyright is all about.

Dan M

I know you hate the pauses, but they do make you seem more casual and less professor-y. It isn't just bad, and for some people it may have served to make you more relatable. It seems more real, and less curated.

Dan M

Life expectancy when copyright started was approximately 60 years. Life expectancy now is roughly 77 years. (77/60)*28= ~36 years. The right amount of time is 36 years. Don't @ me.

birdacorn

The PAIN in your voice gray 💀