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The exact details are here, but basically, payment systems have processing fees, which we, the creators on Patreon, were paying. It's generally a small percentage of a charge + a set amount.

This made knowing exactly how much we were actually getting each month a bit difficult to predict, but it was not without good reason, and I thought it was fine.

Now they want to add a service fee of 2.9% + $0.35 to be paid by patrons for each individual pledge starting on December 18th instead of having the creators pay it, making what we get a predictable 95% of total pledges.

This will effectively make a $1 pledge cost $1.38, a $3 pledge $3.44, and a $5 pledge cost $5.50 (rounding up to the nearest penny, because I'm betting they will).

This is supposed to make things better for creators, but I've yet to see anyone actually happy about it. I've already complained to Patreon's official Twitter, and will have other words to share with them.

I'm not sure what changes I'll make if they do go through with it (I'm sort of hoping they won't), but I'll keep you all posted. Patreon itself should be sending out a message about this to patrons tomorrow, but I wanted you all to hear it from me first (if not another creator).

EDIT: Short term, if they do go with this, I'll be changing the minimum pledges for each reward tier to as close as the exact amount needed for people paying a minimum to not wind up paying more so long as they switch to the new minimum.

Long term, there are potential options other than Patreon, though I'm not eager to jump ship. I know of and communicate with other cartoonists on Patreon, and I get the feeling this is something that will be figured out as a community if Patreon doesn't sort this out.

Comments

Emtu

I just saw this on Twitter, I don't think anyone's happy about this nonsense. Edit: Ok yeah, it might make it better for creators, by screwing over all the patrons.

Kachopper9

Patreon is going to shit, They've even gotten stricter in terms of Adult content, despite that being a large part of Patreon

Anonymous

FWIW, I've been spending part of this afternoon actively moving any recurring payments I make on Patreon over to other services (like liberapay.com) if the creator supports it, because it looks you get hit (as a backer) for those fees for every creator individually, so I'm going to be paying that $0.35 for every single creator (on top of the percentage) despite the fact that they only have a fixed cost of a single transaction for me. It's rent-seeking, and I'm not buying.

Anonymous

Thank you for looking out for your patrons

John Trauger

Does this mean you aren't getting charged anymore? That when I put in $1.38 you the creator get the full $1?

Anonymous

It's just terrible how they're taking more money, and justifying it by saying "more money goes to the creators" which is BS that hinges on the abuse of factions. Their service fees increased overall, but they're advertising specifically the numbers 7-15% and 95% in parallel, as if to say that they are comparable when the denominator is not the same. They even have the nerve to say "We ran experiments to understand patrons’ potential reactions and we found that many patrons were happy knowing that this change will send more money to creators." - of freaking course patrons believe sending more money to creators is good! Those experiments don't show how much less future patrons are projected to be willing to donate, they just highlight how easily current patrons who might otherwise criticize the change are misled by the intentionally misleading numbers. I would at least grudgingly respect Patreon if it openly stated why and how they need to increase their service fees, but this just reeks of shady short-term cash grab.

Anonymous

Pretty sure you don't have to change your pledge level: a $1.00 pledge, from the sounds of things, will get the new flat fee and percentage tacked onto it at processing-time (presumably to keep creators from suddenly seeing a massive dip in their checks when this goes through). And then, out of that $1.00, Patreon is going to take their 5%. So, donate $1.06 to ensure at least a dollar gets to the creator, I think?

Anonymous

More (any) NSFW pages and I wont mind any increases... ;-)

Anonymous

Welp, looks like Patreon finally got over their greed aversion. It was nice while it lasted.

Anonymous

Nothing about this change indicates it is short-term, it's really a perpetual cash grab.

Anonymous

Thanks for giving us the heads-up.

Paul Lenoue

But is it greed? Running a site like this, managing all those transactions, it can't be cheap. And what about the loss of net neutrality? Patreon could be doing this so they could be able to afford the higher prices for decent access, rather than being throttled to death by greedy internet providers. I just don't like everybody jumping to the "Greed Factor" whenever any unwanted change happens. Wait until the facts are in, I say.

coredumperror

This is a TERRIBLE idea. It's going to discourage SO MANY potential patrons when they see the "Oh, you'll *actually* be paying YXZ, rather than the XY you promised to pay" message at the final signup screen.

coredumperror

This doesn't change how much Patreon earns. It only changes who gets charged the processing fees that Patreon is already paying to credit card companies and PayPal. EDIT: I WAS WRONG. Patreon not only increased the % from 1.9% to 2.9%, but they also increased the processing fee from $.30 to $.35. AND they're charging every Patron the $.35 fee, even though the creator would previously be *splitting* that fee across all their patrons' pledges that would get batched-processed together. TL;DR: This is a massive cash grab by Patreon. FUCK THIS.

David Fenger

Tacking on the .35 to every pledge is going to make me drop about half my pledges. All the $1 pledges? Gone. Depending on how this is handled, I might bail on the rest as well.

Erin Halfelven at BigCloset

Do the math, while it increases the amount creators get, it also increases the amount Patreon gets, all by charging Patrons. What's ironic to me is I just activated my creator account a week before this hit. I would not have done so if I had seen this first.

PSadlon

I do see this having unintended results. While each individual pledge will net a little bit more more for the artist, it will probably result in less pledges, possibly enough less to reduce overall pledge income for artists.

Anonymous

Well, that's irritating

Anonymous

Going to mention this exists, <a href="https://liberapay.com/" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://liberapay.com/</a> might be an option if Patreon does not respond to criticism.

PSadlon

Using Dan's Pledge Tiers Under the old system Dan got between $0.85-0.93 per dollar pledged between Patron's Fees &amp; Credit card processing fees (probably around $0.85 for $1 a progressive more for higher pledge amount). Under the new system Dan gets $0.95 per dollar pledged and a flat fee of $0.35 per pledge plus 2.9% covers Patron's Fees &amp; Credit card processing fees. I personally have a Square account and if I take a credit card payment for anything with an entered credit card number, their fees 3.5% + $0.15 to process it. If I eat the fees at Dan's tiers. I make $0.81 for a $1 transaction, $2.74 for a $3 transaction, &amp; $4.67 on a $5 transaction. If I passed the fees on to customers, it would cost them $1.19, $3.26 &amp; $5.33.

PSadlon

Looks like Liberpay uses roughly the same rates as Patreon (2.925% + $0.35).

coredumperror

Honest question: what math is there to do that shows that Patreon gets more money? These seem like very typical credit card processing fees. It seems, from my reading, that the only thing they've done is foist those fees off onto us patrons, instead of charging them against the creators' income. EDIT: I went out and did some research to check the math. Patreon not only increased the % from 1.9% to 2.9%, but they also increased the processing fee from $.30 to $.35. AND they're charging every Patron the $.35 fee, even though the creator would previously be *splitting* that fee across all their patrons' pledges that would get batched-processed together. TL;DR: This is a massive cash grab by Patreon. FUCK THIS.

coredumperror

EXACTLY! This is such a terrible change for those of us who pledge small amounts to many creators. My monthly Patreon costs will go up almost $10, and I get absolutely nothing out of the deal. This is outrageous.

RobertC

Yeah this isn't good. I have a hard cap of $15 a month for patreon so I don't know who yet, but one of my pledges is going to be basically removed to cover this nonsense.

Anonymous

Ah, they're trying to shut themselves down by driving away most of those who pledge. Typical.

David Howe

Jeph Jacques beat you to it :) Patreon aren't the only players in town though, and I have noticed the amount I am paying has been going up steadily for a while now (mostly due to exchange rates I guess) - could be worth looking at alternates, even if only as leverage?

Crissa Kentavr

It’s one of those thing that banks are doing that is scummy. There literally is no reason the bank needs to charge 35 cents for each creator, they don’t do that for each grocery! But it’s not Patreon or Creators fault.

David Howe

I pay though paypal and it's a single payment. is paypal charging more?

James C

From what I can see, Patreon are changing from "we charge you once for all pledges, at 35c" to "we charge you once for each pledge, at 35c per pledge". That's not a change for the banks, it's a change in how Patreon administer the charges and payments. I just hope they are doing 1 payment to the creator, and not 1 per patron to the creator! (There are other changes, but that's the one relevant to your comment)

Thisguy

The big problem I see is that if the artists I support go elsewhere, that’s another account I have to manage, though that’s a “me” issue.

Anonymous

Wonder if Patreon changed credit card processors? That might explain it. As we heard they used to batch run the cards so Patreon paid .35 to their processor for every card (our account), plus the percentage every month. Now if a new processor is treating the creator accounts as individual stores within an online mall, than every individual pledge would be treated as a purchase from a different store and be charged separately. That's about the only way this makes sense to me.

Kaiyalai

Glad to hear you and other creators are planning for if Patreon sinks themselves by not backpedaling on this.

David Fenger

I finally got my 'dear sucker' letter from Patreon. I have now deleted most of my pledges. I was supporting a dozen artists, now it's three. EGS is one of the ones that survived the purge. If many people act the same (remember to put down why you're killing the pledge in the survey) Patreon might take the hint.

Daniel

I foresee a lot of creators who are of a like mind to yours that will do the same with regards to changing the pledges, Dan. I am baffled as to why they chose to do this, unless of course it gives them more money in the end?

Jumpy James Johnson Junior

One possible response is to dodge a lot of the 35c fees by switching to supporting one creator at a time for $60 a time instead of 12 at a time for $5 a time. With the percentage thing, though, they'd still be creaming off $20.88 that way. That's a couple of days' food for someone else, or a ... well, I can think of a lot of good causes.

Anonymous

Their latest post helped explain it -- before, they were bundling charges at the beginning of the month. Now, they're going to charge people on the anniversary of the day they starting pledging (so if you pledge on the Dec 7th, your next payment will be Jan 7th, instead of Jan 1st). The downside is that now, instead of getting charged once per month by the payment processors, they get charged every time one of these anniversaries happen. All of that extra money has to come from somewhere, and so instead of taking it from what we're paying, they're adding it on top. They have an explanation as to why this is better and we should all love it, but it's really rather forced.

Anonymous

Do you have a Paypal or other form of non-Patreon tip jar for those of us who want to continue to support you, but not support Patreon's nonsense?

Anonymous

I have to say I'm sorry for dropping the pledge, $1 though it was. If they cancel this I can come back, but since I had ~29 $1 pledges, I can't afford the 40% increase in payment.

Daniel

It may address the double-dipping of paying up front, but it utterly decimates people who pledge $1 amounts to creators. It just doesn't work.

dst1980

And as of today, Patreon has backed off of this change. <a href="https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/">https://blog.patreon.com/not-rolling-out-fees-change/</a>