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You'll be able to both make comments on submissions as well as vote on things in the cloud.

How would you prefer this works?

We originally intended to have karma for everything, but maybe that will create toxic environment?

Comments

Anonymous

Likes for submissions, but I think karma could be an up and down vote for comments to kind of encourage a supportive environment.

Anonymous

Personally, I've always felt that people should be able to make their opinions known, and in this modern era of increasingly tight control of expression, that feeling has only grown stronger. Therefore, let karma reign over all, I say. However, this is with the caveat that there should be no repercussions (not officially mandated ones, at least) for those who manage to accrue negative karma for whatever reason. Let it be known to all how unpopular the person in question is, by all means, but leave it at that; believe you me, that's plenty enough punishment for all but the most unrepentant. Of course, there will be those who treat it all as a dick-measuring contest, but that's fine as well; I can't think of a handier way of quickly telling apart those whose priorities aren't quite in the right order.

Anonymous

Definitely up/down for submissions, that way it's easy to track things like "most popular submissions". I don't see any need to do that for comments. Like/thumbs up has gotta be good enough for comments.

Steven Tethy

Karma on everything sounds good, so long as the total number of likes and dislikes are available to see, and not just an aggregate. Also I feel like comment karma could be named agree/disagree.

Anonymous

I vote for the fourth option because i don’t see the point in karma and dislikes. Furry Fandom is quite extensive and there is always something that others just don’t like! And this can lead to toxicity and crushing dislikes Just because of a difference of interests. EDIT. You already see the difference in interests. It’s easier to give tags to people, and by the number of likes they will look for the most popular works, rather than inflate meaningless conflicts and misunderstandings.

Anonymous

I'm against downvoting for submission. I feel like the quality of submissions is more often than not too subjective. For example, Mr. Shark hates dolphins. Should he dislike every dolphin he sees? I also feel like this could also bring multiple bad behaviors. Mr. Shark sees that his character has 5 upvotes, so he starts disliking some of those with 5 so that his character can be on top. Can you see who put dislikes? Mr shark saw that someone dislike his wale OC and start disliking his. If a character has 34 upvotes and 30 downvotes and another only has 5 upvotes, if both have the same number of views, should the one with 5 upvotes be above the one with 34? What do you think?

CraneVein

Make It so that dislikes don’t affect popularity ratings. Something has 100 likes and 20 dislikes should be recognized as more popular than something with 80 likes and no dislikes. In this context a dislike can be dealt for more than just having a poor quality submission. It could be the best submission but some people don’t like the fetish. You get what I mean?

Anonymous

People should be allowed to like submissions and comments but that's about it. If someone doesn't agree with one of the above they can simply not like it and move on.

Anonymous

the same thing we had for yl1 would be great

Anonymous

I think no voting at all is best, but if one must be, I'd say it should only be a Favorite kind of system. Not LIKE, not UP or Down. Just Add to your Favorites. When someone adds to their favorites, it means they really like your work, or were impressed by something of your work. No one needs to know if 100, 200 people dislike their work, especially for Yiffalicious and yeah, as much as seeing that 300 people like your work or that 400 voted it up while 100 voted it down... but does it really make you feel better at the end of the day? ... maybe it does, but if there is only Favorites... well it will make you feel better too if you see 10 people added your work to favorites. And lets all be plain here, Yiffalicious offers character creation for a fetish and while one person may love cats, maybe they don't like any of the others so they just never vote them up. So my vote goes for the last one, LIKE on submission only. But it would be even better if it was FAVORITE instead of LIKE.

Stewart Simpson

Up and down votes please, crowdsourced bubble sort!

Anonymous

As someone who doesn't create characters or scenes myself I see it as a tool to help sort through good content. In an environment specifically meant for content creation and sharing there will inevitably be low effort content mixed in with the things people put genuine time and effort into. Sometimes I appreciate the quality of something enough to upvote it without wanting it taking space in my favorites, which I usually reserve for things that I, well, favor. Basically, "favorites" and "likes" aren't functionally identical for many people, including myself, in that "liking" something is just an expression of approval, where "favorite" is something I intend to come back to multiple times.

Anonymous

I think down voting only encourages toxicity. With the YL2 character creation you are opening up so many possibilities, that there are bound to be submissions which don't please some or only appeal to a few. Allowing downvoting will only bury unpopular submissions and may even negatively impact the search results or perception of characters which niche groups are into. If a submission is not popular, downvoting it and allowing people to react negatively towards them will only encourage hateful comments, toxic behaviour and possibly enable unpopular submissions to be sought out and eliminated from YL2. There is a reason, similar to what I tried to express here, why popular social networks do not allow downvoting.

Anonymous

Popular social media networks don't allow downvoting because they're controversy-averse corporate cowards, plain and simple, in my honest opinion. Not that it's stopped people from finding other ways of expressing disapproval and measuring unpopularity, either, such as with like-to-comment ratios. One of the biggest issues of the furry fandom has always been a lack of honest critique. When people consider even polite disagreement as essentially heretical, we often end up in the situation that artists are surrounded with nothing but sycophantic praise, leading them to believe they’re hot shit and that they don’t need to improve, so their art skills stagnate or even get worse over time. Of course, the opposite of non-stop hate isn’t a good thing either, but I think you’ll find that most people aren’t going to go off on an artist for no reason whatsoever; if someone is getting absolutely bombarded, they probably aren’t an entirely innocent party in the situation. Aside from a few extreme fetishes, I don’t think most niche content is at risk of massive downvote sprees. Most people are quite apathetic about things they don’t find personally appealing, after all. The people who like the extreme stuff can always search for their preferred tags, too, ignoring the downvotes; if they need to know what’s the best in that given category, they can always discuss it among themselves in their own specific channels. What could potentially suffer from massive downvotes, though, is the presence of such niche content in otherwise perfectly vanilla scenes, especially if it’s not tagged properly and pulls a nasty surprise on the unsuspecting viewer. In such a case, I’d say the downvotes are quite justified, and paradoxically enough, might just make the scene more viewed as people come in to figure out why this seemingly ordinary piece of content is so hated. Of course, on the other hand, it encourages a rather strict categorization of content along fetish division lines, which risks making each individual category formulaic and boring in the long run, but then, there will always be a few mavericks looking to innovate and break established traditions, and some of their experiments just might end up successful and becoming the next big thing in that particular neighborhood and perhaps even beyond. Let’s not forget that sometimes, you just might want to see what the most unpopular stuff is, for whatever reason. Maybe you’re looking to see what you should avoid doing or simply want to satisfy your morbid curiosity. If you only go off of “least likes”, you’ll have a hard time telling apart the hated from the simply ignored, which can be a bit of a problem when there’s a lot of content to sift through. I’m not sure what you mean by unpopular submissions being eliminated from YL2, either, as I’m fairly sure the community isn’t going to be given powers to simply expunge things they don’t like and the devs aren’t going to swing the banhammer at anything that isn’t outright illegal and therefore a risk to the entire project. I suppose some creators might quit in frustration if their stuff attracts the community’s ire, though. While unfortunate, such is to expected in this fandom, where artists regularly decide to nuke their shit off the internet for the most bizarre reasons.

Anonymous

I have a feeling a dowvoting system especially for comments could snowball into downvoting something that does not deserve it. Sort of like kinks and stuff that are niche. Although, this all depends on the size of people using the App. A "smaller" number of us will most likely not be erratic with our votes like that, but if YL2 gets crowded, reddit like behavior could happen.

Anonymous

One of the biggest issues of the furry fandom has always been a lack of honest critique. - I agree, but I don't really see how downvoting could help. Isn't it more the job of the comment section? And in that regard, could the ability to downvote comments create incentives against posting critics especially if the post has a high number of likes? I do hope that if the up and down vote is implemented that we would be able to see the number of likes and dislike because otherwise, it could make a controversial kink that has 45 upvotes and 60 downvotes harder to find has it will only show -15. It could also make the more ''normal'' content dominate the most liked section and because people tend to want to be liked, more ''normal'' stuff will be made (I know that those are only speculations). I have the feeling that right now, most patreon supporters would not downvote post or comment for bad reasons but this could change after the YL2 free build or non-patreon paid build. I'm no fool, even if I do like straight fluff stuff what I love the most is vore and I know the hate this kink can get. I don't know if it will be possible to create that type of scenario in YL2 but if it's possible, I know I will have to search for it no matter what. If I eventually post a vore scenario, I would rather see the 4 likes it gets than the 20 dislikes or the -16 score in the voting system. I'm a shy guy that type in google translate whit Grammarly and I'm probably seeing this worse than it is, but I know that this kind of situation would probably stop me from sharing stuff I could make.

Anonymous

The issue with comments is that it takes a while to write them up, especially if you’re taking the time to actually construct it well in order to better get your point across. Downvotes are fast and don’t require writing skill, so one can, arguably, get a better read on the pulse of the general community with them, with the comments specifying the problem points in clearer detail. With just comments, it’s quite possible for critic cliques to form that will wield more power than they’re due, as they will be able to argue more eloquently than their opposition and thus have greater influence over the artists; a sizable voting pool that suggests the critics’ arguments may not hold a great deal of water would counter that power quite handily. “Normal” stuff always dominates the most liked section, such is the nature of things; the most popular items have the most supply. I think you’ll find that there are more than enough of those who want to cater to a more niche audience, though, especially in this fandom. There’s plenty of popularity to be found by catering to an under-served crowd, after all. Creative use of tag searching can always be used to counter the list being flooded with content you’re not interested in, as well. Obviously, free access will always bring with it problems, but usually, you get more good people than bad people from the influx. Problems start getting worse if the bad people get properly organized, though, but they’re usually not smart enough to cause problems without everyone becoming aware of their bullshit and simply ignoring it in future, or getting the banhammer if they can’t just be ignored. I’m pretty sure we’ll get a blacklisting system (YL1 had one, after all), so people probably aren’t going to just downvote the stuff they don’t like seeing, unless it shows up where it isn’t tagged properly. If they decide to ignore the feature and keep downvoting, others will call them out for their poor form, most assuredly.

Anonymous

If you don't like something and you really want to show it, I think it's better that you explain your feelings rather than just leave a casual downvote. Leaving a downvote will just encourage more negativity in general, and foster a toxic atmosphere. The comments are also easier to disregard than a blatant metric that tells you your content is disliked by many. YL2 should be enjoyed and people should focus their attention on what they like and make submissions popular by upvoting. If you want to be critical of someone's work, that's fine too, the comments will allow you to voice that without smothering the creator with ugly numbers.

Anonymous

The whole point is to be difficult to ignore, otherwise what’s the use? Criticism that will just be casually brushed off is something most people won’t waste their breath on, and nothing’s more prone to causing resentment in a fanbase than feeling like their voice is being ignored. I think we all know far too well that angry fans are a recipe for disaster. Downvotes serve as an early warning system that tells creators they’re going in the wrong direction. Without it, the storm of discontent will likely build without them really knowing, especially if they pay little heed to the comments, until it comes crashing down around them with full force. I’d say a negative number is the lesser of two evils, here.

Anonymous

Downvotes might serve that purpose, but it's easier to abuse and spam down votes than negative comments. Also we are talking about creations highly limited by the platform and the art style of YL2. I cannot see how someone who likes the baseline idea of YL2, and wants to see what it offers, would need to downvote content when their intent was to come and enjoy themselves creating and/or consuming YL2's content. Also the downvote system would still create a very easy to see divide in the content, based on the demographics of the user-base, as in sex, gender, sexual orientation and kinks. I think it is unfair to allow anyone to negatively label content and make portions of the user base feel segregated. The difference between having a lot of downvotes and very few likes is that the wrong person, who might get wrongly picked on, will not feel undeserved hate or shame for what they've done. Also I just don't get why being able to hate on people and their creation is so important.

I don't believe anybody gains from having an attitude where you're ready to jump on and attack people for what you don't like instead of ignoring them and focusing on what you want to enjoy, which YL2 is supposed to be and offer.

Anonymous

I guess I just don't approve of the Karma system and rather see the plain numbers of likes and dislikes so you know how many people actually liked it and disliked it. In YL1, you only saw the total of them, not how many of each. And if it hasn't been thought of, it would be great if one could actually Favorite the author, instead of the work or even Follow the author of a work so when you really like their work, you'd get notified when they add something else. And when looking at someone's profile, you'd see everything they have in their favorites and all the authors they follow.

Anonymous

Because sometimes, people do things deserving of hate. Let’s take the recent Warcraft Reforged situation as an example. If it were not for the review bomb, people likely would have had to resort to legal action to get their refunds, which would have been an ever worse (not to mention more expensive for everyone involved) mess. Now, granted, what we’re dealing with there is an out-of-touch developer whose strings are being pulled by a greedy publisher that seems to be actively trying to sabotage them, but something similar could occur in our neck of the woods. Picture, if you will, a creator who’s gotten real popular with a long history of quality work. Then it all goes to his head and he decides to retroactively revoke people’s right to use his characters unless they pay him for the privilege. Obviously, it’d probably be a bit difficult to enforce, but the very notion is rather insulting, is it not? To so brazenly slap the faces of the people that got you where you are today is not something that should go unanswered. But, most people would probably never have any idea that this drama took place if there was no overt indication of it, such as, say, a massive spike in downvotes. Comments can be forgotten in time, buried under new comments of a more benign nature, but numbers are not so easily washed away. And, again, even those who don’t intend to vote themselves will benefit from the votes of others with more options when it comes to search filtering. You might want to see what works have the lowest ratio of downvotes-to-upvotes, or vice versa. Perhaps even which works have the most even numbers to see what kinds of things are prone to causing divisive controversy. And if you simply want to enjoy things without getting mixed up in the drama? Don’t pay any heed to the karma game, just search the tags you like and/or make the things you want to make. That’s what I’ve personally always done.